So this post is very much going to resemble and Fugly Horse Of The Day (for those who don't read that blog go have a look it's great )
Over the past 2 months I have been watching the online horse ads in our area through Kijiji and Equestrian Connection and a few other horse sites. The amount of crappy horses priced too high just kills me!
I can get a 2 year old quarter horse that is trained to the T, in other words the owners worked their poor little filly or colts butts off before they had even developed a butt to be worked off! These horses DO NOT LAST, sure if your looking for a show horse for the next two years and then want to breed for the next 15 this horse may be perfect for you. **(edited out due to over use of bad wording)**. Honestly do we make children run marathons? Do we force little children to learn high tec dancing maneuvers, to practice it again and again until it is perfect? We don't! That's because they aren't ready! Not physically ready! We don't want the children to limp around when they hit their early teens. Why don't we apply the same ideas to the horses we raise?
You think I'm picking on the western world, and guess what I am. (Edited in, I am not forgetting about all the other disciplines who over work young horses as well, for now yes lets just talk about western). The racing world is no better but they get enough attention. A horse can naturally run in a straight line with a teenie rider on their back without a lot of damage. There are plenty of horses that come off the track and can still move and be ridden for years to come. Running is a natural thing, spinning, doing sliding stops, flying lead changes, extreme collection, is that natural? I don't think so.
Alright back to what I was supposed to be blogging about. The quality of horses, these young horses that are "trained to the max" are priced high and no doubt they'll get their asking price. In my opinion they shouldn't they should get what a horse that age is worth which is around 1000, maybe. The same is happening for other breeds though, plenty of ladies selling their horse to go to college, or to have more money when they get married. These horses are crap. I'm sorry but seriously almost every one of them has a huge conformational fault, no show history, and is not suitable for the type of riding they are advertising it for. A horse that is naturally on his forehand, severely under weight, and has seen a few jumps is not a jumper. Perhaps when it learns to carry its self it'll make it to the low level jumping. This particular horse is advertised for $4000. He is nothing special, there are many green broke skinny thoroughbreds who go for a few hundred dollars to meat each week, and these ones may actually have decent conformation!
There is my blog for the week, I think in pony club this week we are going to look at all the horses online and figure why you would and why you would not buy the animal. Hopefully I can inspire a generation of horse people who will breed and train for quality and not just for substance.
There we go.
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Uhmm.. WTF. Western is not cruel. Not very profesional of you to be posting stuff about that. Way to be, Jenni. AND dressage is no different than reining.
ReplyDeleteShow me a category for two years old to compete in at a dressage show, one where they compete for a few thousand dollars or a fancy saddle. I haven't seen one.
ReplyDeleteDressage is no different than reining if you train them properly. Making a horse do a piaffe at the age of 2 would be retarded, why because the horse would fall apart they simply aren't ready. Like wise with reining having a horse spin or do any extreme collection isn't going to do the horse any good.
Sorry for looking out for the horse.
This is the same horse you see going to the meat man on a regular basis, or if it's lucky retired to be bred for the rest of it's crippled life.
I was picking on reiners, but show me a dressage class aimed to get young horses to perfection with a huge grant prize to motivate the trainers who just don't care..and then you've got yourself an argument.
-Jenn
You're really gonna lose people fast, saying things like that.
ReplyDeleteI'm not going to lose the people who aren't afraid to stand up and Not work the yearling under saddle teach him to spin and slide on his hocks. The people who leave are obviously people who don't have general knowledge of horses, or who just don't care.
ReplyDeleteEither way those people can leave.
I think it's very uneduacated of you to say that all reining and western riders are cruel, There are alot of good trainers out there. who don't push there horses hard, but there are some in ALL deciplines including english who push them too hard too fast.If your a coach in this industry you should be a little more informed and the horse world is pretty small you never know who might take offense to the things you say.
ReplyDeleteAlright, admittedly I have worded things too harshly. I don't believe that all reining and western riders are cruel, that is something I should edit out. But I do think that no one has said it yet and it need to be said. There are a lot of trainers specifically reining that push their horses too hard. It is of course harder to be as judgmental on a discipline I ride as a discipline I tend to just watch. I'm not perfect. No one is.
ReplyDeleteI would speak out if I saw a 2 year old being ridden over fences, anywhere. Period.
I would speak out if I saw a 2 year old being forced to piaffe, to march, and to do flying changes. Period.
I don't like seeing 2 year olds raced but like I said it isn't as hard on them, as they are going straight and it's a natural gait to them, there is no collect or anything else involved it's straight and run.
I find it hard to put into words sometimes what I am trying to get across. Hopefully this comment will help.
There is no reining class for two year olds only a western pleasure classe. The nrha futurity is done in dec of there 3 year old year. The obbo has a class at the reining futurity for two year olds but it's pleasure and it's also in september of there 2 year old year. So they are young but not as young as you think. If all horses were only worth 1000.00 as twos the whole horse market would fall apart, If you wanted to breed your mare to a proven stallion and the stud fee is 1500.00 and you raise that foal get an awesome baby feed the mare and foal for 3 years and in the end only get 1000.00 no nobody would be breeding at all(eventhough that sounds good, with too many back yard breeders and people just breeding because they have a mare).But there is something to be said for a well pedigreed stallion whos babies got out and perform time after time.That has to be worht something. If as a breeder you only knew you would get 1000.00 you'd go broke. There would be no reason to promote your stallion, get points on your mare,raised quality babies, everything would be junk. The horse prices would be even lower than they are now. It has to be worth something to buy horse out of a world champion,or by a proven producer. Every part of our industry relize on it. There are alot of junk horses out there ones that have horrible conformation no pedigree or were just bred for coulor, these horses are what bring the prices down. People need to breed for the individual not just because they have a mare.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with you 100% about the breeding. There are horses out there that are worth something and there are studs out there that should be bred, and mares as well who are great horses and should pass on another great horse. No argument there.
ReplyDeleteHowever, in regards to your first comments, I did see a 2 year old division with the top prize $1000 plus a pretty western saddle. In this class the horses were 2 and the horses were spinning nice neat tight spins and doing sliding stops. This is what I don't agree with.
Where was this class I've never seen it,NRHA, Congress are the two big ones, ontario does'nt have one ethier, they are only for three year olds and all of thses shows are in oct and dec. So the horses are almost 4 by then.The pleasure class is called reining pleasure but it is just walk jog lope on the rail. NRHA gonverns just about every reining show there is and they don't allow a two year old reining classe. Everything is 3 year old and up execept for the pleasure. Look up the rules your self,
ReplyDeleteWESTERN FAIR LONDON ONTARIO
ReplyDeleteREINING COMPETITION: Instead of just sitting in the stands during your lunch, you will be able to experience some true horse power. Reining began on the working cattle ranches, where cowboys used their horses to gather, move and hold cattle on the open range. This competition provides a venue for riders to demonstrate the skills of their highly trained and hard working horses. They are judged on a variety of moves which include: circles, lead changes, spins, sliding stops, rollback and backup.
I went to watch this last year and a lot of the horses were barely 3. We got talking to a few ladies in the stands, they pointed out a few horses that were only two, there, competing.
It's great that they have rules and I have been reading the ORHA website for most of this morning. The two year old pleasure class is appropriate for the 2 year olds, I like this.
Let me ask you, how long does it take to get a 3 year old to the level of which they are showing at these competitions?
To properly train a dressage horse (sorry that's the world I'm from), it takes years. To get a nice collected canter, a canter pirouette, and a solid flying change. It isn't something you can accomplish in one year of light riding.
The ranch horse competition was a first last year, I know alot of the people who were showing in this class, and the horses they were riding were not two year olds, they were aged . who have been there done that. There were only a few who even entered most of them have been riding those horses for years at the reined cow horse events.Im not saying I agree with what some people do but you should just get the ages at which they show right. Before you start to critize it. Look up the names of the people who competed and then google the horses name I'm sure you'll find that those horses have been around for years.There are always going to be things in this industry that you don't agree with no matter what the decipline, western,english,racing. Every dicipline has trainers that push too hard, you should'nt just focuse on reiners.
ReplyDeleteBecause this is my blog I am allowed to focus on what ever I choose to. Whether it be reining, dressage, swimming, or cartwheels.
ReplyDeleteI was there, it was a class for 3 year olds. Some of the horses in real years were two, turned three only because of January 1st. The ladies sitting near us pointed out which horses were younger and from which barn (which of course I am not going to remember as it is over a year ago). These are my facts from the event that I went to, to watch as a common spectator.
And finally, just an FYI, I do not focus on reiners, I have one blog post about reiners.
To all of you who have commented negatively towards my blog in general, take of the rosy sun glasses and have a look at what your own personal discipline is like, I know I have. What needs to be fixed in your section of the horse world?
Those horses must have been born prety late considering the show was in september.Most horses are born in the early part of the year don't know of alot of people who beed to get a oct or november foal.Breeding season noramlly ends sometime in july.
ReplyDeleteI have been reading your blogs. I must say I think you are the most uneducated horse person ( i use that term loosely) I have come across. I am schooled in formal dressage and have trained and shown in different western diciplines. You have nothing to base your opinions on. Educate yourself in the areas concerned before you start running your mouth. This is a very small industry and you will be black listed before you know it.
ReplyDeleteI admit I do not know very much about western.
ReplyDeleteHowever I do know a lot about dressage both the modern dressage and classical dressage methods.
I also know enough about the horse anatomy to know it's wrong to tie a horses head in a certain way to achieve a look for performance.
I ran my mouth as a spectator watching and learning from the people around me.
I'm sorry but the fact is this:
**Horses are over worked at a young age in many areas of the horse industry **
(and I STILL think it's wrong no matter who much you want to argue with me)
Whether it be dressage or reining, show jumping, or back yard riding I don't think it's right because the horse is not developed for it.
What I would love to see is a horse started later and competing instead as a 4 or 5 year old in the reining world. I know this is unheard of I'm crazy.. Just keep arguing with me it's fine I know your opinion and you know mine.
To say that I am the most uneducated horse person you have come across.
Tells me first that you live in a small city.
Second that if you show and compete you haven't been around long enough to meet very many people.
You are right in saying this is a very small industry. But honestly the only people who are going to blacklist me are the ones who don't care about the horses future and are quite fine with ruining it by over working it at a young age. Fine by me.
I have read all the posts and I think that everybody has a right to their own opinions. However, name calling and treating people with disrespect is very immature and unprofessional.Try to keep your posts to the matter on hand without backstabbing comments.
ReplyDeleteI have a question for you! What do you think about hyper flexion? That is going on in the dressage industry right now. I have been around for many many years and have shown successfully on the Trillium and National level in dressage. I have been training and working with quarter horses for about 10 years now, and have come across a few training techniques i would not use, BUT i found the same thing in dressage. I can't tell you how many horses came in with blood on their sides,mouths cut from double bridles. There is problem in every dicipline, english and western, but you cannot focus and trash western riding and training. Its equal in all areas of riding. Be fair, and honest.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous....there is an even more recent blog about dressage, modern verses traditional training techniques, it's up a bit further.
ReplyDeleteI do not just pick on western riding and training, I'm looking at all disciplines.
I agree with you that there are training problems and also I think judging problems (with what is considered okay in some of our sports..not always the judges fault but our own faults as well for what we perceive as being okay.) with all of the riding disciplines .
You asked me what I think about hyper flexion. I completely disagree with it because I like to see a horse work first from the hind end. Rather than teaching a horse to have a "head set" I'd like them to come down into the contact naturally through using their top line and abdominal muscles. In a blog above I compared my two x racers who I've done dressage with. One being taught by holding them into contact, using side reins (improperly I might add..I was young still learning), and another taught the proper way and given time to develop proper muscles to carry himself.
I was wondering who you have trained with? You claim to be a dressage rider, I have not heard of you. Where do you show and at what level?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous I have not heard of you either.
ReplyDeleteI haven't had the financial opportunity to show at large. I've done a few LDA shows and I've competed in Massachusetts a few times but that's all I've been able to do in the past few years.
Thats cool, I was just wondering who you have trained with. I have been around the dressage end for many years and was just curious. Do you have your coaching levels? What level can you teach up to? Do you have any higher level horses that you can teach off of?
ReplyDeleteI am working towards my coaching levels. My instructor level is in the works from there I may go onto coach 1 but I haven't decided I personally am not a fan of the coaching system set up. So to invest even more money towards being more certified may not happen , it will depend on how the program changes in the future.
ReplyDeleteI can teach up to the level that I am at, that is my own rule if my students surpass me I send them forward to my own coach.
I do not have any higher level horses that I teach off of, I have my own four horses at this point all of which do basic dressage (and one who does higher movements). Two of them do lessons over fences as well. We are a small stable, and until I get my own facility it will remain small.
If you'd like to chat more perhaps send me an email.